Alibaba is, as you know, the leading or one of the leading tech companies inChina, very successful. Its valuation is very high, but their business model is actually very appealing to the masses, because if you take something like Taobao or Tmall, it's a platform. It allows people to trade on the platform through the Internet. In a way, the people who are involved in this, the supplierson Taobao are usually SMEs. They're small enterprises or even individuals who open up what we call Taobao shops online.

Malcolm Riddell: Can you explain that a little bit, because I don't think that's anything we're familiar with here. How do you open up one of those shops?

Ed Tse: You just go onto Taobao and register, and you say, "I want to create a shop." The shop is a virtual shop. It's a website or a link you create on Taobao, and you tell people the kind of stuff that you sell. You can sell cosmetics. You can sell handbags. You can sell apparel and shoes and so on. There's numerous number of these small shops virtually. In fact,across many parts of China, there's now a phenomenon which is called Taobao villages. There are villages, clusters of people, who created the Taobao shops, and in the process, because you need to deliver physical merchandise, it's not just virtual, it's real stuff, so in a way they also created their own little manufacturing or they sourced manufacturing products from wherever. You have actually these clusters of Taobao villages have become a pretty stable source of employment and actually income for a large number of people. I don't know what the numbers are,but it would be in the millions or tens of millions.

Malcolm Riddell: It's a wonderful story.

Ed Tse: It's a great story.

Malcolm Riddell: A wonderful story.

Ed Tse: Yeah. When we talk about [inaudible 00:35:14], when we talk about the new economy, yeah, the guys who develop the platform, who drive the business model, the smart guys from Alibaba, yeah, they are in the tech business, but the guys who are involved, who benefit from this business model, can be pretty mundane, pretty everyday people. That's okay.That's just life, right?

Malcolm Riddell: Yeah.

Ed Tse: Another dimension, Malcolm, is that you need the competence or some additional competence, that somehow the transition from over capacity to some degree of employment through the entrepreneurship innovation could happen.

Malcolm Riddell: That's why I wanted you to expand a little bit, because when we talk about entrepreneurship, let's say here in the U.S., we think of Silicon Valley, we think of smart people who are out there racing around developing breakthrough products, searching for venture capital, and all of these things. I think that what I've learned from you is that the entrepreneurship model in China is varied and could actually have a huge impact on ways that we never thought of.

Ed Tse: Yeah, that's right. In China we also have similar things what you talkabout, like what happened in Silicon Valley. A lot of entrepreneurs, smartguys, tech guys, VCs, angel investors, they're all around China, very similar. They're actually patterned after what's going on in Silicon Valley.

Yet, at the same time, the additional aspect of the entrepreneurship that we talked about, the impact of the Chinese society in general is significant because many of the business model that we're talking about from the tech entrepreneurs are platforms. They are not like, "Oh, let me create the next, most sophisticated gadget, and I try to sell it," and so on.People like Alibaba, Jack Ma, and also Tencent and Wechat and games and so on, they appeal to a mass market. They appeal to tens of thousands if not hundreds of millions of people. That's how the business model work, and that's why some of these companies can round up the valuation so quickly, is the impact of the massive market.

Malcolm Riddell: That's terrific. Before we leave this, you mentioned the Taobao shops and stores. How is that different from eBay? I can do the same kind of thing on eBay, but it just doesn't seem quite as obvious or in the same direction as, say, an eBay does.

Ed Tse: You know the story, right? When eBay came to China in 2003, China didn't really have that market, that C to C market. Alibaba at that time was only in the B2B, but Jack Ma saw the threat and also the opportunity,and he decided to take on eBay. History taught us that Alibaba has beaten eBay. I think Alibaba or Jack have really taken that on after that point and really spread out the Taobao business model across all of China, and that actually people really like it because it's a very efficient way of buying whatever product that they like to buy, and also as I mentioned, it's also a very effective way of creating employment or helping SMEs or individuals to make some money.

It's a fascinating story because in the past, perhaps some of the ... In the family, especially in China, maybe the male would go and work, maybe the female would stay at home. She may not do a whole lot at home other than housework. Actually, today, given the Taobao, a lot of them others could take care of both the family but at the same time she could also create a Taobao shop along the way, and she could make some money along the way. It's actually much better capacity utilization from a resources standpoint. It's a great, mind-boggling story.

I think it's worth something that in America, the American entrepreneurs can also try to see if it can be replicated. As you also know, that's probably what Jack Ma talked to Donald Trump when they met a couple of weeks ago, or maybe three weeks ago now, when Jack came to Trump Tower and they talk about it, and Jack said, "I can come and help to create a million jobs in the U.S., and particularly in the Rust Belt, with SMEs." That's what he's talking about, really, is to really build a Taobao platform and perhaps in America, in the Rust Belt, one can create a large number of "Taobao villages" in the U.S.

Malcolm Riddell: What a terrific thing. It also supports the Chinese government's efforts to move to a more consumer-led economy, as well. It seems like it does well all the way around. Here, where we already have a consumer economy, and we see the success of Amazon and other platforms, and I mentioned eBay, but this sounds like a completely revolutionary concept. It sounds terrific.